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69299049 No.69299049 [Reply] [Original]
Quoted By: >>69299109 >>69299480

How would magic and wizardry affect the institutions and system of checks and balance's of a fantasy world democracy?

>> No.69299075
Quoted By: >>69299109 >>69299346

Humans of Mass Destruction make democracies much harder to maintain. When a single person can go after entire armies and small groups of them can topple nations it makes it difficult to justify anyone but them being at the top. Democracy might exist for lesser positions to run day to day affairs, but really the people at the top should be essentially superbeings.

>> No.69299109
Quoted By: >>69299162 >>69299210

>>69299075
That or the state heavily recruits the most powerful to defend itself.
>>69299049
Zone of Truth and other effects would do crazy things to the legal system. Being able to just force people to be honest is an incredible power by itself and would utterly transform any legal system.

>> No.69299162

>>69299109
Those Debates would be crazy, "Mr.Doom what do you have to say to your detractors who say you used to practice necromancy?"

>Sweats in Lich

>> No.69299210
Quoted By: >>69299268 >>69299281

>>69299109
>That or the state heavily recruits the most powerful to defend itself.
This will still simply lead to one of them arriving in a top position and keeping that top position by consorting with others. It'll turn into Oligarchs or Dictators.

>> No.69299268
Quoted By: >>69299297

>>69299210
what if mages get all their mana from the masses? like, every person has a tiny amount of mana, too small to be worth anything by itself, but they all pool their mana together and give it to a person to serve as national wizard. if people don't like how the national wizard is behaving they can just choose to withhold their mana, which has little effect individually but in large numbers would make the wizard lose all their power and become a regular person. then they invest it in another person to be the wizard instead. magic democracy.

>> No.69299281
Quoted By: >>69299293 >>69299305

>>69299210
What if the state banned anyone with magic or mage connections from forming or joining political parties? Its not like testing for magic is that hard to do, could be part of your office oath

>> No.69299293
Quoted By: >>69299342

>>69299281
>What if the state tried to tell people that are more powerful than them what to do?
Bold move.

>> No.69299297

>>69299268
Spirit Bomb democracy

I love it

>> No.69299305
Quoted By: >>69299357 >>69299400

>>69299281
How do they enforce that? Mages, your voting block that could literally destroy your military and kill every person in the nation, being regulated in any way is unrealistic. Regulating the people who hold the monopoly of violence is impossible.

>> No.69299342
Quoted By: >>69299397

>>69299293
True but the Bourgeois wizard class cant control the worker masses with power alone. they wont be able to rule without any form of legitimate power, well not directly at least.

>> No.69299346

>>69299075
I kind of hate this trope because it assumes magic allows people to turn into DBZ characters in a otherwise down-to-earth world, with all established factions somehow being so retarded they can't figure out that maybe they should get magicians of their own to maintain their hegemony. And the magicians are always cast as incredible out-of-the-box thinkers for actually using their limitless world-cracking power that they achieved with relatively little opposition to pursue their personal agenda

>> No.69299357
Quoted By: >>69299465

>>69299305
If they cant exert reasonable control over the population without a co-operating government. The same reason a wizard cant just kill a king and usurp his government.

>> No.69299397
Quoted By: >>69299447

>>69299342
They literally can though. When a wizard could, at any moment, appear out of thin air and murder you there is no way to respond. They hold a monopoly on violence so complete that our modern world can't even reach it.

They can read minds, control people, teleport, be invisible, have undetectable bugs, and simply kill you from any distance.

When your masters can use fear to control and have no threat of recourse their control is complete. These people do not need to sleep, can effectively not be killed except by one of their own, and can be everywhere at all times. This is the death of politics.

>> No.69299400
Quoted By: >>69299483

>>69299305
maybe wizards are in the power bracket somewhere between "a few normal soldiers" and "all the resources of the state combined"

>> No.69299447
Quoted By: >>69299483

>>69299397
Okay so how many bullshit superpowers are we giving wizards in this hypothetical scenario? Because if they can in fact go *teleports behind u* and effortlessly kill anyone anywhere they do in fact win anything forever and the setting becomes a strict magocracy

>> No.69299457

>all this wizard wanking
Wizards are still killable if they go rogue. Wards and magical protections exist.

>> No.69299465
Quoted By: >>69299510

>>69299357
And why can't the wizard do that? Let us say we have a non-magical kingdom. It is ruled by men and women who are both elected (a parliament) and not (a monarchy) in a constitutional monarchy.

Bigdick the wizard teleports into the thrown room, kill the king then teleports into the parliament building and kills the prime minister. He then declares himself dictator. He continues to kill officials who dispute his claim until they either declare him dictator for life or they are quite literally all dead. The populous if they do not follow his orders are killed. Officials if they do not follow his orders are killed. If the nation gets razed he just moved onto the next one until one does follow his whims. When a single individual has an unchecked control on violence they can not be controlled by any political rulings.

>> No.69299480
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69299480

>>69299049

>> No.69299483
Quoted By: >>69299560

>>69299447
I am giving them the power of a roughly level 15 wizard in D&D.

>>69299400
The wizards at the very top part of the bracket, in D&D terms one around level 15, can decimate nations.

>> No.69299510
Quoted By: >>69299524

>>69299465
Because the Big Dick Wizard Hit Squad of the Alliance of Hypothetical Kingdoms teleports in and kills him by weight of numbers. Your scenario is literally the basis for most DnD fantasy stories where the evil overlord usurps the throne and must be put down by an alliance. Other nations will ally against a threat that big out of necessity and suddenly that wizard will find out that having no allies is a bad thing.

>> No.69299524

>>69299510
Yes, and the only people who can contest Bigdick the Wizard are other magical super beings. The notion there are more benevolent super beings who will let the rule of law function than ones who desire power is ludicrous.

>> No.69299560

>>69299483
I assume a 3.5 wizard, right? Because a 5e wizard would not get away with any of this shit. Teleport is the earliest spell with unlimited range, and that's 7th level, which at level 15 you'd only have one slot for, and unless this wizard has been parading around the seats of every government in the world for years the lack of familiarity would land him off-target very often



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